Or So I Thought!
- on 06.08.09
- Diary Entry
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Dear Diary,
Hold on to your pages…you won’t believe this one!
I received a call from a new transfer student (or so I thought) needing to set up an advising appointment. The same student even called back to make sure it was an hour appointment and I assured her it was. Later, I realized that I had a meeting which conflicted with her appointment so I called and spoke with the student (or so I thought) to reschedule.
When the student came in for her appointment she had no idea how to log in or access the university’s website at all. Baffled, I asked if she had received the letter that guided her through the process. She says, ‘Oh, my Mom read it. She does all that stuff for me.’ I started to get a nagging feeling, so in conversation I ask if the student works in a bank. She says no but her Mom does. So I had to ask…”When I called you last week to reschedule were you with your Mom?” Her response…”No, that was my Mom you talked to. She makes all of my arrangements, sometimes without telling me.” Naturally I was taken aback but something else was puzzling me… when I called the bank and asked for the student the call was transferred. So I asked the student if she and her Mom have the same name. She shakes her head and says no. Oh my goodness! This means…the Mom has it set up that when someone calls her job and asks for her daughter they transfer it straight to her. Have you ever heard of such a thing?
The bottomline is I NEVER spoke with the student until I met with her for her appointment. I was always speaking with the Mom. WOW! This is taking helicopter parenting too far!
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This is just creepy.
Heard a great term for these parents at a regional conference last week – Black Hawk Parents. Love it; they go WAY beyond helicopter parents. The sad thing is, that girl’s going to be in so much trouble someday when she’s actually forced to do things for herself. Mom’s pathetic!
There was a student whose parent forced them to give the parent their password to the college website that posted grades, financial aid, classes, etc. That poor student was treated like a high school student. I suppose the parent could have completed their assignments if they had decided to make sure the student received higher marks.
It causes me to wonder at what point do parents begin to release their hold on the student, at age 24 like FAFSA requires? What a shame they have not allowed the student to take responsibility for their own education.
Well…I see things a bit different than many of my colleagues. I am a long time academic advisor…as well as the parent of two college students, a sophomore and a freshman. This mother is way over the line, but she is unusual. Good parents will “release the hold” gradually…so that by the time the student graduates (in four years,hopefully without major mistakes) he/she is ready to be independent, in the true sense of the word (supporting themselves!). I have access to my own kids’ academic records…it is much easier to pay the college bills…as well as offer counsel. I see too many students who struggle without any parental care or concern. They are thrown to the academic wolves when they are 18 and a new freshman…expected to go from a dependent minor to a responsible adult…practically overnight! Good parenting doesn’t work that way.”Human development” doesn’t work that way. College used to be a “weigh station” between childhood and educated adulthood…now, we expect college students to take full responsibility right off the bat…no wonder they often flounder. Please don’t disrespect good parents who are simply trying to ease their “young” adults into full adulthood…there is a place for transition between home and full independence. That having been said…yes, this mother was creepy.
WOW! Her mom is her personal assistant!
Not surprising at all. Last month I presented at the NACADA Region 3 Conference in Charleston, West Virginia and in a presentation on “Who are Today’s College Students” I made the comment that it is no longer “helicopter” parents at our colleges and universities but that parents of millennial students are “lawnmower” parents. Why? Because they are not just flying above the student, they are right down in the grass doing the work!
Although this mother was extreme (or should I say mother and daughter – there is consent here), imagine a graduate student’s parent doing the same for his or her student. That really boggles the mind! And I have had it happen recently.
I, too, with two in college, am inclined to agree with Carla. The government, specifically FERPA, FAFSA, & the Dept of Education, has imposed these hard and fast turning points, that some entities within the academic institution use to practice an all-or-nothing approach to dealing with parents(all the money now, nothing else). Based on those often unrealistic and impractical limits, involved parents are labeled, alienated and treated as the enemy during a period when parents should be considered the most valuable ally and partner with the institution during this crucial transitional and developmental phase. After hearing the horror stories (some worse than this one) and being treated like crap for asking quesions and not accepting dismissive answers in person with my child present, I, in some ways, look forward to meeting these parents in person so that I can assure them that their child’s advisor is a knowledgeable, caring adult who does have their child’s best interest in mind. I demonstrate how to supportively share the information and actively encourage the child to make decisions based on sound information. This mom is way beyond over board, and both would benefit from some education about how to constructively support a college student. Advisors are often the ones with the most opportunity to engage with the parents and students and provide that education. If we take to heart and consciously practice “advising is teaching”, one of the rewards is seeing both the student and parent grow.
We have a term for this, we call it, “Black Hawk Down!”
Yes, this is creepy. I’ve seen more and more of helicopter parenting even with graduate level students.
This is exactly why we need to assure we have the student with us before we divulge information or even set up appointments. With more and more being done over the phone and internet, I advise everyone in advising to consider getting training as a Distance Credentialed Counselor. It walks you through all the privacy and security issues, technology issues, as well as ways to confirm the identity of the student/client. When I worked in advising, we would ask students to confirm the classes on their schedule (or last semester’s classes), who their professors are/were, names of at least one other student in their class last semester, etc. Parents know DOB and SSN. Find out about the students and use your student information system; get creative and “sluethy” to find questions only they can answer. Then change it up so if they do share their “new password” with someone, they won’t know how to answer the next inquisition.
This is quite astounding! I am a new advisor, and a fairly recent graduate (2007). When I entered University, I was well-prepared to deal with the transition because my parents started treating me like a responsible individual, well from the time I was in elementary school. As I progressed through high school, I was expected to deal with more and more, whether it was paying bills, finishing assignments or doing my laundry. I always envied my friends whose parents did all of these things for them, until I entered University and saw how dependent they were on others. I know some people are naturally prone to independence, as I was, but my opinion is that it only hurts a young adult when they are not forced to deal with reality. If you forget an assignment – you get a zero. If you don’t wash your clothes, you wear dirty ones! So many students are hand-held to such an extreme (I encourage support and interaction – my parents also didn’t know what I was doing much of the time!) that it creates a sense of entitlement which translates to whiny clueless students who can’t even search a website for a clearly published date or fee, for example.
I’m sure it’s hard to watch your own children struggle through new events, and you want to ensure they have everything needed for success, but allowing them to do this on their own will create a strong, confident and independent person that will have greater success and own their actions.
I think it’s quite sad that a parent would pretend to be her daughter rather than encourage her daughter to take control of her own future – how can this student be expected to enter the workforce and be responsible for anything really?
I agree that we should never make a parent feel that their questions are not welcomed, but I completely disagree that you should wait until your child turns 18 to start teaching them how to be independent adults. At 18, the law holds them accountable for their actions because the expectation is that the work of being prepared for adulthood is nearing completion. This does not mean that they would not have any questions or missteps, but that they are critical thinkers and resourceful individuals. Jackie, I salute you and your parents!
I’m most suprised that Mom didn’t come to the appointment with her!!!
Last time I looked, every self-repecting institution of post-secondary education had left that “sink-or-swim” philosophy behind a very long time ago and has since devoted multiple resources (staff, programming, etc.) to supporting new students (adults-in-training, if you will) through a successful transition into the life of a college student.
Becoming an adult overnight? Please…
Good parents fulfill their societal obligations by helping and supporting their children on a path toward assuming an adult place in society LONG before orientation to college. Those who don’t, in my experience, typically have their own problems with control issues, a lack of their own identity, or appropriate boundary issues and like to blame others (colleges, FERPA, etc,) for their fears and lack of preparation for the inevitable.
It is unfair to expect any undergraduate education program to re-direct its limited resources away from the student’s educational experience in order to focus on the unmet needs (that can be fulfilled in many other ways by that adult) of a parent.
I agree with Carla, but I want to add a thought, what about our students who come from foster care – or other independent status youths? They are at such a disadvantage, since they do not have a “parent” advocating on their behalf. Something to think about, and there are colleges offering advocacy/support services (sometimes advisers) for these student populations for this reason.
I think people forget that until the 1960’s…maybe the 1970’s…college was recognized as a “transition” between childhood (with parents being legally responsible) and full adulthood (supporting oneself). Yes(!)…my own children did their laundry, helped with the household, volunteered and held part-time jobs….prior to graduating highschool. My good parenting mandated these experiences. I was also legally responsible for them. College is an opportunity for them to spread their wings further, while still financially dependent on me (at least FAFSA says I am still to be considered financially responsible, if my children choose to go to college. However, I also choose to help them).
By the way, FERPA gives parents rights to academic records without their child’s consent, as long as the parent(s) prove financial dependence on a tax form.
Mark is absolutely correct…there are many programs on campuses to support students’ transitions….a very good thing! I have experience working in Student Services and once ran a Faculty Mentor program for “at-risk” students. I am not opposed to campus support systems for all students, especially for students who have been raised in foster care and other “at-risk” populations.
My own two college students are at different universities, living on campus, and I actively encourage them to use any and all resources. But no one cares about my own two college students’ well-being like their parents do…and all I ask is that their institutions’ representatives respect my role as a parent and a mentor to my child.
Most of us parents are well into the process of letting our children progress on the path to full adulthood…we do not have “issues”. We don’t do our childrens’ assignments, and we have no intention of financially supporting our kids in graduate school! But we do recognize that, for our offspring, college is another step toward full adulthood…our children are not independent yet…and we parents do have a role to play in a healthy transition process.
I never use the words “helicopter parents” (or any variation!) in my professional work. I understand it is a term used to make light of stressful situations, but I consider it a derogatory term. I have had a lot of success with parents at all “involvement levels” when I offer assurance that I empathize with them. We joke about the Government requiring us to give up our financial information (FAFSA) in order for our “under 24’s” to get Fin Aid and be awarded an EFC and a PLUS loan…while, at the same time, making it difficult for us to see what our EFC is paying for (FERPA)! We talk about the fears we have..that our children are inheriting massive public debt, incurring huge student loans, seeking employment in a really lousy economy, our own Catch 22: Do we help pay for the EFC…or our own retirement fund? Will our children have competent and inspired college teachers?
In summary…parents are not the enemy! We college representatives could do a lot for our institutions’ relationships with the parents who support us by sending their students to our schools. We can uphold the law (FERPA), as well as help to foster a positive college experience for all….without considering parents an unneccessary or irrelevant part of the transition process. We can be active/empathetic listeners.
I speak as…
one who has a foot in both worlds…and one who didn’t fully understand this until I DID have a foot in both worlds!
Carla
Carla, you wrote…
‘By the way, FERPA gives parents rights to academic records without their child’s consent, as long as the parent(s) prove financial dependence on a tax form.’
I have never heard of this. Where would the parents have to go to show their tax form and who would provide the students’ academic record? In other words what is the process? I am very curious.
Like so many other things…when something doesn’t make common sense to me…I go straight to the source to try and figure out where the “non-sense” is emanating from. It made no common sense to me that the government could require the financial info from me and my husband in order for my (under age 24) children to qualify for financial aid…suggest we should pay for part or all of the EFC (we are fine with that)…then turn around and tell us that we can’t have any access to the college-related financial or academic records of our dependent students. Our children gave us full access to everything anyway (they were not forced to do so..they understood that we have a vested interest in knowing these things, as long as they are dependent on us).
So I went to the Electronic Code of Federal Regulations…current as of April 2009…looked up the Federal Educational Rights and Privacy Act…and read it.
Title 34:Education, Part 99-FERPA, Subpart D, section 99.31(8) lays it out. This is public information…not so difficult to find.
I confirmed my findings with the Registrar at our university. The registrar said that if a parent can show them a tax return listing a financially dependent student…then the parent(s) have access to records based on that criteria alone. My current understanding is that each unit at a campus would have to have seperate proof.
Having said all that…in my experience, I have never been in the middle of a confrontation between parents and their dependent students over this issue. I believe most parents either don’t get bothered by law that seems non-sensical on it’s face…or their children don’t have any qualms about sharing this information with their parents as long as they are being supported by them.
This is “communication” between family members about issues that are important and relevent to both generations. Apparently, the FERPA law also backs up this family value. If a student does not want to be accountable to the people who are financially supporting him/her, the student can become independent. Accountability to a higher authority is a real-life-adult experience…any employee/employer relationship holds that to be true. College is a good time to learn this, as well.
Thanks Carla…I will share this with the colleagues on my campus. Our campus insists that unless we have written permission from the student we cannot share any information about a student with anyone including their parents. Perhaps we need to revisit the policy again.
Hi again Carla…Just checked and found out that it is at each University or College’s discretion if they will disclose information without prior consent based on tax information. Our entire university system requires written consent from the student only. So I recommend that if an advisor is interested in finding out if their campus is willing to disclose information based on tax status they should check with their registrar. But it is certainly not the rule for all.
Oh…of course it isn’t the rule at colleges and universities.It isn’t the rule at our university either. Our registrar suggested that I not disseminate the information. But it is Federal law.The FERPA law does not state that it is at the University’s discretion.The law says that a university may release the information of a dependent student based on the tax records….in other words, the student does not have the right to academic record privacy if he/she is dependent. If tested by a financially supporting parent…the parent would likely win. However…this is probably not going to happen enough to be a major concern. But like many other “rights” issues…even if it affects just a minority of people, it is important to understand the law.
That’s just plain creepy! Shouldn’t the mom be violating some type of rule by lying and posing as her daughter?
Wow. I have never had that. In the past two weeks, however, I have had more than a handful of new students and their parents sit across the desk, and the conversation goes like this…
Parent: “So, I was reading through the material, and I think that I came up with a good schedule for John. I chose classes that I think he’ll do well with, based on what I liked when I was in college…”
I think we have to find a balance between helping students become independent and helping them learn how to use the resources they arrive with, including support from their family. Sometimes it is a “helicopter” situation, like the one in the original post, or like the student I had two years ago who would call his mom, who was about 200 miles away, and have HER call me, even though he lived on campus and could have called me or even come by my office quite easily.
Involved and concerned parents are good. Parents who want to do it all for their children are not, in my opinion.